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창조론자들이 진화론을 부정할때 하지 말아야 할 주장들

 

아래 목록은 창조론자들이 흔히 사용하지만 실제로는 잘못된 주장들을 나열한 것이다. 이 목록은 대표적인 창조과학 사이트 www.answersingenesis.org에서 만든 것이며, 이 사이트는 창조론자들에게 이 잘못된 내용들을 거론해서는 안된다고 말한다.

1. 다윈은 죽으면서 진화론을 취소했다.
2. 달에 쌓인 먼지의 양이 젊은 지구, 달을 증명한다.
3. 나사의 수퍼컴퓨터가 여호수아의 잃어버린 하루를 계산해냈다.
4. 자바 원인은 긴팔 원숭이일 뿐이다.
5. 일본의 화물선이 죽은 공룡(사경룡)의 사체를 발견했다.
6. 진화론은 열역학 제2법칙에 위배된다.
7. 인간이 유인원으로부터 진화했다면, 현재는 유인원이 없어야 한다.
8. 여자가 남자보다 갈비뼈 하나를 더 가지고 있다.
9. 시조새 화석은 조작이다.
10. 유익한 돌연변이는 없다.
11. 어떠한 새로운 종도 생겨나지 않는다.
12. 노아의 홍수 전에는 지구의 지축이 수직이었다.
13. 인간과 공룡이 공존했다는 흔적화석이 있다.
14. 다윈이 "종의 기원"에서 눈의 진화는 불가능하다라고 언급했다.
15. 70인역 성서는 창세기를 연대순으로 기록하고 있다.
16. Ron Wyatt이란 사람이 노아의 방주와 성서의 고고학적 증거를 발견했다.
17. Carl Baugh이란 사람이 많은 창조의 증거를 발견했다. (망치 화석이 유명하다.)
18. 태양이 중력장 붕괴에 의하여 빛을 발할때 소실된 태양 중성미자는 젊은 지구의 증거이다.
19. 아인슈타인은 하나님을 믿었다.

또한 성경에도 과학에도 근거가 없는 부정확한 주장들이 있다. 이것들도 역시 사용하지 않는 것이 좋다.

1. 궁창 위의 수증기 덮개 이론.
2. 노아의 홍수 이전에는 지구에 비가 오지 않았다는 주장.
3. 성경 안에는 이미 과학적인 이론이 들어 있다는 주장.
4. 광속이 과거에는 훨씬 빨랐으며, 시간이 흐르면서 느려졌다는 주장.
5. 진화의 중간형태가 존재하지 않는다는 주장.
6. 판구조론이 틀렸다는 주장.
7. 석탄층에서 황금사슬이 나왔다는 주장.

다시 말한다. 위 내용은 모두 사실이 아니며, 부정확한 주장이다.

위와 같이 유력한 창조과학 사이트에서도 창조론자들이 흔히 말하는 내용들이 사실이 아니란 것을 인정하고 있다. 그러나 한국창조과학회에서는 자체적인 조사나 연구는 없이 외국의 창조과학 주장들을 무비판적으로 번역하여 소개하는 것에 그치고 있다. 그래서 이미 거짓으로 드러난 사건, 잘못된 정보 등이 걸러지지 않고 사람들에게 퍼지고 있다.

창조과학을 주장하려는 사람들은 적어도 위에 나오는 내용을 제외한 주장을 하는 것이 좋다. 그렇지 않으면 불필요한 언쟁을 하게 될 것이다.

아래부분은 링크의 전문 입니다.

Arguments we think creationists should NOT use

Q&A Topics: Q&A Index pageAlien/UFOsAnthropology & Ape-menApologeticsArchaeologyArguments NOT to useAstronomy & AstrophysicsBibleBiographies - CreationistsCloningCommunism & NazismCountering the CriticsCreation CompromisesCreation: Why It MattersDarwin, CharlesDesign FeaturesDinosaursEducationEmbryonic RecapitulationEnvironmentalismFamily & MarriageFloodFossilsGeocentrismGenesisGeneticsGeologyGodHistoryHuman Life: AbortionIce AgeInformation TheoryJesus ChristLinguisticsMammothsMorality and EthicsMutationsNatural SelectionNoah’s ArkOrigin of LifePhilosophyPlate TectonicsProbabilitiesRacismRadiometric DatingReligion (humanism, etc.)ScienceScopes’ TrialSpeciationThermodynamics and Order‘Vestigial’ OrgansYoung Age Evidence

The primary authority for Answers in Genesis is the infallible Word of God, the Bible (see Q&A Bible). All theories of science are fallible, and new data often overturn previously held theories. Evolutionists continually revise their theories because of new data, so it should not be surprising or distressing that some creationist scientific theories need to be revised too.

The first article on this page sums up what the creationists’ attitude should be about various ideas and theories. The other articles provide examples of arguments that should no longer be used; some arguments are definitely fallacious, while others are merely doubtful or unsubstantiated. We provide brief explanations why, and/or hyperlinks to other articles on this Web site with more detailed explanations. We don’t claim that this list is exhaustive—it will be updated with additions and maybe deletions as new evidence is discovered. Many of these arguments have never been promoted by AiG, and some have not been promoted by any major creationist organization (so they were not directed at anyone in particular), but are instead straw men set up by anti-creationists.

It is notable that some skeptics criticise creationists when they retract doubtful arguments, but these are also the same people who accuse creationists of being unwilling to change their minds!

Persisting in using discredited arguments simply rebounds—it’s the truth that sets us free (John 8:32), not error, and Christ is‘the truth’ (John 14:6)! Since there is so much good evidence for creation, there is no need to use any of the ‘doubtful’ arguments.

This page also shows why it is important for people to stay up-to-date with sound creationist literature, since these publications (e.g. Creation magazine, and TJ) have already revealed the fallacious nature of some of these arguments.

*For AiG’s point-by-point response to Kent Hovind’s attempted critique of this page, see Maintaining Creationist Integrity.


What is important for creationists to defend, and what should be held more loosely?

Which arguments should definitely not be used?

  • ‘Darwin recanted on his deathbed’. Many people use this story, originally from a Lady Hope. However, it is almost certainly not true, and there is no corroboration from those who were closest to him, even from Darwin’s wife Emma, who never liked evolutionary ideas. Also, even if true, so what? If Ken Ham recanted Creation, would that disprove it? There is no value to this argument whatever.

  • ‘Moon-Dust thickness proves a young moon’. For a long time, creationists claimed that the dust layer on the moon was too thin if dust had truly been falling on it for billions of years. They based this claim on early estimates—by evolutionists—of the influx of moon dust, and worries that the moon landers would sink into this dust layer. But these early estimates were wrong, and by the time of the Apollo landings, NASA was not worried about sinking. So the dust layer thickness can’t be used as proof of a young moon (or of an old one either). See also Moon Dust and the Age of the Solar System (Technical).

  • ‘NASA computers, in calculating the positions of planets, found a missing day and 40 minutes, proving Joshua’s “long day” and Hezekiah’s sundial movement of Joshua 10 and 2 Kings 20.’ Not promoted by major creationist organizations, but an hoax in wide circulation, especially on the Internet.

    Essentially the same story, now widely circulated on the Internet, appeared in the somewhat unreliable 1936 book The Harmony of Science and Scripture by Harry Rimmer. Evidently an unknown person embellished it with modern organization names and modern calculating devices.

    Also, the whole story is mathematically impossible—it requires a fixed reference point before Joshua’s long day. In fact we would need to cross-check between both astronomical and historical records to detect any missing day. And to detect a missing 40 minutes requires that these reference points be known to within an accuracy of a few minutes. It is certainly true that the timing of solar eclipses observable from a certain location can be known precisely. But the ancient records did not record time that precisely, so the required cross-check is simply not possible. Anyway, the earliest historically recorded eclipse occurred in 1217 BC, nearly two centuries after Joshua. So there is no way the missing day could be detected by any computer. See also Has NASA Discovered a ‘Missing Day’? for historical and scientific documentation that this alleged discovery is mythological.

    Note that discrediting this myth doesn’t mean that the events of Joshua 10 didn’t happen. Features in the account support its reliability, e.g. the moon was also slowed down. This was not necessary to prolong the day, but this would be observed from Earth’s reference frame if God had accomplished this miracle by slowing Earth’s rotation. See Joshua’s long day—did it really happen?

  • ‘Woolly mammoths were snap frozen during the Flood catastrophe’. This is contradicted by the geological setting in which mammoths are found. It’s most likely that they perished toward the end of the Ice Age, possibly in catastrophic dust storms. Partially digested stomach contents are not proof of a snap freeze, because the elephant’s stomach functions as a holding area—a mastodon with preserved stomach contents was found in mid-western USA, where the ground was not frozen. See also technical PDF article.

  • ‘The Castenedolo and Calaveras human remains in “old” strata invalidate the geologic column.’ These are not sound examples—the Castenedolo skeletal material shows evidence of being an intrusive burial, i.e. a recent burial into older strata, since all the fossils apart from the human ones had time to be impregnated with salt. The Calaveras skull was probably a hoax planted into a mine by miners. For the current AiG view on human fossil stratigraphy, see Where are all the human fossils? from the Answers Book.

  • ‘Dubois renounced Java man as a “missing link” and claimed it was just a giant gibbon.’ Evolutionary anthropology textbooks claimed this, and creationists followed suit. However, this actually misunderstood Dubois, as Stephen Jay Gould has shown. It’s true that Dubois claimed that Java man (which he called Pithecanthropus erectus) had the proportions of a gibbon. But Dubois had an eccentric view of evolution (universally discounted today) that demanded a precise correlation between brain size and body weight. Dubois’ claim about Java man actually contradicted the reconstructed evidence of its likely body mass. But it was necessary for Dubois’ idiosyncratic proposal that the alleged transitional sequence leading to man fit into a mathematical series. So Dubois’ gibbon claim was designed to reinforce its ‘missing link‘ status. See Who was ‘Java man’?

  • ‘The Japanese trawler Zuiyo Maru caught a dead plesiosaur near New Zealand’. This carcass was almost certainly a rotting basking shark, since their gills and jaws rot rapidly and fall off, leaving the typical small ‘neck’ with the head. This has been shown by similar specimens washed up on beaches. Also, detailed anatomical and biochemical studies of the Zuiyo-maru carcass show that it could not have been a plesiosaur. See Live plesiosaurs: weighing the evidence and Letting rotting sharks lie: Further evidence that the Zuiyo-maru carcass was a basking shark, not a plesiosaur

  • ‘The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics began at the Fall’. This law says that the entropy (‘disorder’) of the Universe increases over time, and some have thought that this was the result of the Curse. However, disorder isn’t always harmful. An obvious example is digestion, breaking down large complex food molecules into their simple building blocks. Another is friction, which turns ordered mechanical energy into disordered heat—otherwise Adam and Eve would have slipped as they walked with God in Eden! A less obvious example to laymen might be the sun heating the Earth—to a physical chemist, heat transfer from a hot object to a cold one is the classic case of the Second Law in action. Also, breathing is based on another classic Second Law process, gas moving from a high pressure to low pressure. Finally, all beneficial processes in the world, including the development from embryo to adult, increase the overall disorder of the universe, showing that the Second Law is not inherently a curse.

    Death and suffering of nephesh animals before sin are contrary to the Biblical framework above, as are suffering (or ‘groaning in travail’ (Rom. 8:20–22)). It is more likely that God withdrew some of His sustaining power (Col. 1:15–17) at the Fall so that the decay effect of the Second Law was no longer countered.

  • ‘If we evolved from apes, why are there still apes today?’ In response to this statement, some evolutionists point out that they don’t believe that we descended from apes, but that apes and humans share a common ancestor. However, the evolutionary paleontologist G.G. Simpson had no time for this ‘pussyfooting’, as he called it. He said, ‘In fact, that earlier ancestor would certainly be called an ape or monkey in popular speech by anyone who saw it. Since the terms ape and monkey are defined by popular usage, man’s ancestors were apes or monkeys (or successively both). It is pusillanimous [mean-spirited] if not dishonest for an informed investigator to say otherwise.’

    However, the main point against this statement is that many evolutionists believe that a small group of creatures split off from the main group and became reproductively isolated from the main large population, and that most change happened in the small group which can lead to allopatric speciation (a geographically isolated population forming a new species). So there's nothing in evolutionary theory that requires the main group to become extinct.

    It’s important to note that allopatric speciation is not the sole property of evolutionists—creationists believe that most human variation occurred after small groups became isolated (but not speciated) at Babel, while Adam and Eve probably had mid-brown skin color. The quoted erroneous statement is analogous to saying ‘If all people groups came from Adam and Eve, then why are mid-brown people still alive today?’

    So what’s the difference between the creationist explanation of people groups (‘races’) and the evolutionist explanation of people origins? Answer: the former involves separation of already-existing information and loss of information through mutations; the latter requires the generation of tens of millions of ‘letters’ of new information.

  • ‘Women have one more rib than men.’ AiG has long pointed out the fallacy of this statement, which seems to be more popular with dishonest skeptics wanting to caricature creation. The removal of a rib would not affect the genetic instructions passed on to the offspring, any more than a man who loses a finger will have sons with nine fingers. Any skeptic who tries to discredit the Bible with this argument must be a closet Lamarckian, i.e. one who believes Lamarck’s thoroughly discredited idea of inheritance of acquired characteristics! Note also that Adam wouldn’t have had a permanent defect, because the rib is the one bone that can regrow if the surrounding membrane (periosteum) is left intact. See Regenerating ribs: Adam and that ‘missing’ rib.

  • ‘Archaeopteryx is a fraud’. Archaeopteryx was genuine (unlike Archaeoraptor, a ‘Piltdown bird’), as shown by anatomical studies and close analysis of the fossil slab. It was a true bird, not a ‘missing link’.

  • ‘There are no beneficial mutations.’ This is not true, since some changes do confer an advantage in some situations. Rather, we should say, ‘We have yet to find a mutation that increases genetic information, even in those rare instances where the mutation confers an advantage.’ For examples of information loss being advantageous, see Beetle Bloopers: defects can be an advantage sometimes, New eyes for blind cave fish? and Is antibiotic resistance really due to increase in information?

  • ‘No new species have been produced.’ This is not true—new species have been observed to form. In fact, rapid speciation is an important part of the creation model. But this speciation is within the ‘kind’, and involves no new genetic information. See Q&A: Speciation.

  • ‘Earth’s axis was vertical before the Flood.’ There is no basis for this claim. Seasons are mentioned in Genesis 1:14 before the Flood, which strongly suggests an axial tilt from the beginning. Some creationists believe that a change in axial tilt (but not from the vertical) started Noah’s Flood. But a lot more evidence is needed and this idea should be regarded as speculative for now. Furthermore, computer modelling suggests that an upright axis would make temperature differences between the poles and equator far more extreme than now, while the current tilt of 23.5° is ideal. The Moon has an important function in stabilizing this tilt, and the Moon’s large relative size and the fact that its orbital plane is close to the Earth’s (unlike most moons in our solar system) are design features.

  • ‘Paluxy tracks prove that humans and dinosaurs co-existed.’ Some prominent creationist promoters of these tracks have long since withdrawn their support. Some of the allegedly human tracks may be artefacts of erosion of dinosaur tracks obscuring the claw marks. There is a need for properly documented research on the tracks before we would use them to argue the coexistence of humans and dinosaurs. However there is much evidence that dinosaurs and humans co-existed—see Q&A: Dinosaurs.

  • Darwin’s quote about the absurdity of eye evolution from Origin of Species. Citing his statement at face value is subtly out of context. Darwin was talking about its seeming absurdity but then said that after all it was quite easy to imagine that the eye could be built step-by-step (in his opinion, with which AiG obviously disagrees—see Darwin v The Eye and An eye for creation).

  • ‘Earth’s division in the days of Peleg (Gen. 10:25) refers to catastrophic splitting of the continents.’ Commentators both before and after Lyell and Darwin (including Calvin, Keil and Delitzsch, and Leupold) are almost unanimous that this passage refers to linguistic division at Babel and subsequent territorial division. We should always interpret Scripture with Scripture, and there’s nothing else in Scripture to indicate that this referred to continental division. But only eight verses on (note that chapter and verse divisions were not inspired), the Bible states, ‘Now the whole earth had one language and one speech’ (Gen. 11:1), and as a result of their disobedience, ‘the LORD confused the language of all the earth’ (Gen. 11:9). This conclusively proves that the ‘Earth’ that was divided was the same Earth that spoke only one language, i.e. ‘Earth’ refers in this context to the people of the Earth, not Planet Earth.

    Another major problem is the scientific consequences of such splitting—another global flood! This gives us the clue as to when the continents did move apart — during Noah’s Flood — see below on plate tectonics.

  • ‘The Septuagint records the correct Genesis chronology.’ This is not so. The Septuagint chronologies are demonstrably inflated, and contain the (obvious) error that Methuselah lived 17 years after the Flood. The Masoretic Text (on which almost all English translations are based) preserves the correct chronology. See Williams, P., Some remarks preliminary to a Biblical chronology, CEN Technical Journal12(1):98–106, 1998.

  • ‘There are gaps in the genealogies of Genesis 5 and 11 so the Earth may be 10,000 years old or even more.’ This is not so. The language is clear that they are strict chronologies, especially because they give the age of the father at the birth of the next name in line. So the Earth is only about 6,000 years old. See Biblical genealogies for exegetical proof.

  • ‘Jesus cannot have inherited genetic material from Mary, otherwise He would have inherited original sin.’ This is not stated in Scripture and even contradicts important points. The language of the NT indicates physical descent, which must be true for Jesus to have fulfilled the prophecies that He would be a descendant of Abraham, Jacob, Judah and David. Also, the Protevangelium of Gen. 3:15, regarded as Messianic by both early Christians and the Jewish Targums, refers to ‘the seed of the woman’. This is supported by Gal. 4:4, ‘God sent forth His Son, coming (genomenon) from a woman.’ Most importantly, for Jesus to have died for our sins, Jesus, the ‘last Adam’ (1 Cor. 15:45), had to share in our humanity (Heb. 2:14), so must have been our relative via common descent from the first Adam as Luke 3:38 says. In fact, seven centuries before His Incarnation, the Prophet Isaiah spoke of Him as literally the ‘Kinsman-Redeemer’, i.e. one who is related by blood to those he redeems (Isaiah 59:20, uses the same Hebrew word goel as used to describe Boaz in relation to Ruth). To answer the concern about original sin, the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary (Luke 1:35), preventing any sin nature being transmitted. See also The Virginal Conception of Christ for a defence of this foundational doctrine and further discussion of these Biblical passages.

  • ‘The phrase “science falsely so called” in 1 Timothy 6:20 (KJV) refers to evolution.’ To develop a Scriptural model properly, we must understand what the author intended to communicate to his intended audience, which in turn is determined by the grammar and historical context. We must not try to read into Scripture that which appears to support a particular viewpoint. The original Greek word translated ‘science’ is gnosis, and in this context refers to the élite esoteric ‘knowledge’ that was the key to the mystery religions, which later developed into the heresy of Gnosticism. This was not an error by the KJV translators, but an illustration of how many words have changed their meanings over time. The word ‘science’ originally meant ‘knowledge’, from the Latin scientia, from scio meaning ‘know’. This original meaning is just not the way it is used today, so modern translations correctly render the word as ‘knowledge’ in this passage.

    Of course AiG believes that evolution is anti-knowledge because it clouds the minds of many to the abundant evidence of God’s action in Creation and the true knowledge available in His Word, the Bible. But as this page points out, it is wrong to use fallacious arguments to support a true viewpoint. On a related matter, it is linguistically fallacious to claim that even now, ‘science really means knowledge’, because meaning is determined by usage, not derivation (etymology).

  • ‘Geocentrism (in the classical sense of taking the Earth as an absolute reference frame) is taught by Scripture and Heliocentrism is anti-Scriptural.’ AiG rejects this dogmatic geocentrism, and believes that the Biblical passages about sunset etc. should be understood as taking the Earth as a reference frame, but that this is one of many physically valid reference frames; the centre of mass of the solar system is also a valid reference frame. See also Q&A: Geocentrism, Faulkner, D., Geocentrism and Creation , TJ15(2):110–121; 2001.

  • ‘Ron Wyatt has found Noah’s Ark’ This claimed Ark shape is a natural geological formation caused by a mud flow.

  • ‘Ron Wyatt has found much archaeological proof of the Bible’ There is not the slightest substantiation for Wyatt’s claims, just excuses to explain away why the evidence is missing.

  • Many of Carl Baugh’s creation ‘evidences’. Sorry to say, AiG thinks that he’s well meaning but that he unfortunately uses a lot of material that is not sound scientifically. So we advise against relying on any ‘evidence’ he provides, unless supported by creationist organisations with reputations for Biblical and scientific rigour. Unfortunately, there are talented creationist speakers with reasonably orthodox understandings of Genesis (e.g. Kent Hovind) who continue to promote some of the Wyatt and Baugh ‘evidences’ despite being approached on the matter (ed. note: see our Maintaining Creationist Integrity, our response to Hovind’s reply to this article).

  • ‘Missing solar neutrinos prove that the sun shines by gravitational collapse, and is proof of a young sun.’ This is about a formerly vexing problem of detecting only one third of the predicted numbers of neutrinos from the sun. Also, accepted theories of particle physics said that the neutrino had zero rest mass, which would prohibit oscillations from one ‘flavour’ to another. Therefore, consistent with the data then available, some creationists proposed that the sun was powered one-third by fusion and two-thirds by gravitational collapse. This would have limited the age to far less than 4.5 billion years.

    However, a new experiment was able to detect the ‘missing’ flavours, which seems to provide conclusive evidence for oscillation. This means that neutrinos must have a very tiny rest mass after all—experimental data must take precedence over theory. Therefore creationists should no longer invoke the missing neutrino problem to deny that fusion is the primary source of energy for the sun. So it cannot be used as a young-age indicator—nor an old-age indicator for that matter. See Newton, R., Missing neutrinos found! No longer an ‘age’ indicator, TJ16(3):123–125, 2002 (to be posted).

  • ‘Einstein held unswervingly, against enormous peer pressure, to belief in a Creator.’ However, in the normal meaning of these terms, Einstein believed no such thing.

What arguments are doubtful, hence inadvisable to use?

  • Canopy theory. This is not a direct teaching of Scripture, so there is no place for dogmatism. Also, no suitable model has been developed that holds sufficient water; but some creationists suggest a partial canopy may have been present. For AiG’s current opinion, see Noah’s Flood—Where did the water come from? from the Answers Book.

  • ‘There was no rain before the Flood.’ This is not a direct teaching of Scripture, so again there should be no dogmatism. Genesis 2:5–6 at face value teaches only that there was no rain at the time Adam was created. But it doesn’t rule out rain at any later time before the Flood, as great pre-uniformitarian commentators such as John Calvin pointed out. A related fallacy is that the rainbow covenant of Genesis 9:12–17 proves that there were no rainbows before the Flood. As Calvin pointed out, God frequently invested existing things with new meanings, e.g. the bread and wine at the Lord’s Supper.

  • ‘Natural selection as tautology.’ Natural selection is in one sense a tautology (i.e., Who are the fittest? Those who survive/leave the most offspring. Who survive/leave the most offspring? The fittest.). But a lot of this is semantic word-play, and depends on how the matter is defined, and for what purpose the definition is raised. There are many areas of life in which circularity and truth go hand in hand (e.g. What is electric charge? That quality of matter on which an electric field acts. What is an electric field? A region in space that exerts a force on electric charge. But no one would deny that the theory of electricity is thereby invalid and can’t explain how motors work.) — it is only that circularity cannot be used as independent proof of something. To harp on the issue of tautology can become misleading, if the impression is given that something tautological therefore doesn’t happen. Of course the environment can ‘select’, just as human breeders select. Of course demonstrating this doesn’t mean that fish could turn into philosophers by this means — the real issue is the nature of the variation, the information problem. Arguments about tautology distract attention from the real weakness of neo-Darwinism — the source of the new information required. Given an appropriate source of variation (for example, an abundance of created genetic information with the capacity for Mendelian recombination), replicating populations of organisms would be expected to be capable of some adaptation to a given environment, and this has been demonstrated amply in practice.

    Natural selection is also a useful explanatory tool in creationist modelling of post-Flood radiation with speciation [see Q&A: Natural Selection].

  • ‘Evolution is just a theory.’ What people usually mean when they say this is ‘Evolution is not proven fact, so it should not be promoted dogmatically.’ Therefore people should say that. The problem with using the word ‘theory’ in this case is that scientists use it to mean a well-substantiated explanation of data. This includes well-known ones such as Einstein’s Theory of Relativity and Newton’s Theory of Gravity, and lesser-known ones such as the Debye–Hückel Theory of electrolyte solutions and the Deryagin–Landau/Verwey–Overbeek (DLVO) theory of the stability of lyophobic sols, etc. It would be better to say that particles-to-people evolution is an unsubstantiated hypothesis or conjecture.

  • ‘There is amazing modern scientific insight in the Bible.’ We should interpret the Bible as the author originally intended, and as the intended readership would have understood it. Therefore we should be cautious in reading modern science into passages where the readers would not have seen it. This applies especially to poetic books like Job and Psalms. For example, Job’s readers would not have understood Job 38:31 to be teaching anything about gravitational potential energy of Orion and Pleiades. Rather, the original readers would have seen it as a poetic illustration of God’s might, i.e. that God, unlike Job, could create the Pleiades in a tightly-knit cluster which is what it looks like; while God created Orion as a well spread out constellation, again something well beyond Job’s ability. Similarly, Job 38:14 is not advanced scientific insight into the Earth’s rotation, because the earth is not being compared to the turning seal but to the clay turning from one shape into another under the seal.

  • ‘The speed of light has decreased over time’ (c decay). Although most of the evolutionary counter-arguments have been proven to be fallacious, there are still a number of problems, many of which were raised by creationists, which we believe have not been satisfactorily answered. AiG currently prefers Dr Russell Humphreys’ explanation for distant starlight, although neither AiG nor Dr Humphreys claims that his model is infallible. See How can we see distant stars in a young Universe? from the Answers Book.

  • ‘There are no transitional forms.’ Since there are candidates, even though they are highly dubious, it’s better to avoid possible comebacks by saying instead: ‘While Darwin predicted that the fossil record would show numerous transitional fossils, even 140 years later, all we have are a handful of disputable examples.’ See also Q&A: Fossils.

  • ‘Gold chains have been found in coal.’ Several artefacts, including gold objects, have been documented as having been found within coal, but in each case the coal is no longer associated with the artefact. The evidence is therefore strictly anecdotal (e.g. ‘This object was left behind in the fireplace after a lump of coal was burned’). This does not have the same evidential value as having a specimen with the coal and the artefact still associated.

  • ‘Plate tectonics is fallacious.’ AiG believes that Dr John Baumgardner’s work on Catastrophic Plate Tectonics provides a good explanation of continental shifts and the Flood. See Q&A: Plate Tectonics. However, AiG recognises that some reputable creationist scientists disagree with plate tectonics.

  • ‘Creationists believe in microevolution but not macroevolution.’ These terms, which focus on ‘small’ v. ‘large’ changes, distract from the key issue of information. That is, particles-to-people evolution requires changes that increase genetic information, but all we observe is sorting and loss of information. We have yet to see even a ‘micro’ increase in information, although such changes should be frequent if evolution were true. Conversely, we do observe quite ‘macro’ changes that involve no new information, e.g. when a control gene is switched on or off.

  • ‘The Gospel is in the stars.’ This is an interesting idea, but quite speculative, and many Biblical creationists doubt that it is taught in Scripture, so we do not recommend using it.



written by (arksia)
2004-10-12 11:37:16
1357 번 읽음
  총 28 개의 댓글이 있습니다.
  1. 1. 유준수 '04.10.12 1:34 PM 신고
    :-)*님이야 말로 제대로 하시죠.
    1번- 확인 할 수 없음.
    2번- 거짓이라는 증거 없음.
    3번- 거짓이라는 증거 없음.
    4번- 증거 불출분.
    5번- 확인미상.
    6번- 거짓이라는 반증 없음.
    7번- 전혀관계없음. 유인원이 현재에 있건 없건 진화발생 증거 없음.
    8번- 가치를 못느껴서 패스
    9번- 시조새 화석이 존재하든 안하든 진화발생 증거 없음.
    10번- 현재까지 밝혀진 돌연변이 현상은 유익하건 무익하건 간에 새로운 개체를 만들지 못했다는 사실이 중요.
    또 귀찮아서 더 이상 안하겠습니다. 창조론을 주장한다는 것으로 묶인 것들일 뿐이지 어떠한 논리적 연관성이 없는 것들을 일부 허구인지 아닌지 알 수 없는과 섞어서 모두 허구인 것처럼 말하지 말고 하나하나 논리적인추론과 근거로 부정해 주시죠. ↓댓글에댓글
  2. 2. 참솔 '04.10.12 2:57 PM 신고
    :-)*확인할수 없다는 것은 다윈이 진화론을 취소했는지 안했는지 확인할 수 없다는 이야기겠죠? 그렇다면 창조론자들도 다윈이 진화론을 취소했다는 주장을 해서는 안됩니다.
    거짓이라는 증거가 없다는 것은 또한 참이라는 증거도 없다는 것과 마찬가지겠죠.
    증거불충분이나 확인미상이라고 써놓으신 것 역시 마찬가지,
    그렇다면 위에 써 놓은 것들은 어느 쪽에서도 주장할수 없다는 이야기입니다(그런데 그런 주장은 대체로 창조론 쪽에서 먼저 주장한 후 진화론자들이 맞받아치는 형태였죠)
    아크시아님 말대로 창조론자든 진화론자등 위의 문제에 대해서는 입을 다무는 것이 좋겠네요.


    님이 확인해 준 것에 대해서 반론해 보죠
    7번, 유인원의 존재가 진화와 상관 없다면 역시 창조론에서도 이것으로 진화론을 반증하면 안되겠죠?
    10번, 돌연변이에 의한 알비노 개체(백호나 흰 까마뒤 등)들은 생식에는 전혀 이상이 없습니다. 다만 자연계에서 눈에 너무 잘 띈다는 이유로 성체가 되어 생식을 하기 전에 죽기 쉽다는 것이죠(기형으로 인한 자연사가 아닙니다. 천적에 의한 죽음일 뿐입니다.)
    8번, 남자와 여자의 갈비뼈 수를 세면 됩니다. 갈비뼈수가 다르다고 주장한 창조론이 부끄러워 가치없다고 외면하시는 것인가요?
    6번, 진화가 엔트로피를 감소시킨다는 주장이 있는데. 엔트로피는 총량이 증가할 뿐이지 국소적으로 감소하는 것은 문제가 안된다는 것은 상식입니다. 만약 그런 것까지 불가능하다면 냉장고는 만들 수 없었겠죠.
    9번, 다른 문제에 있어서는 소위 missing link를 대라고 주장하면서 실제 미싱링크인 시조새 문제는 왜 부정하시는지요? 시조새는 분명히 공룡과 조류 사이의 고리들 중 하나입니다.(물론 공룡과 시조새 사이, 시조새와 조류 사이의 고리는 더 찾아봐야겠죠) ↓댓글에댓글
  3. 3. 참솔 '04.10.12 3:15 PM 신고
    :-)*유준수님, 자신이 논리적이라고 생각하신다면 귀찮다고 줄이거나 가치를 못 느낀다고 지나치지 마시기 바랍니다. 저같은 사람들은 그런 것을 보면 전혀 논리적이 아니라고 보이거든요. 반박할 수 있는 물음에는 줄기차게 파고들면서 반박할 수 없는 자료에는 눈을 감는 것처럼 보입니다. ↓댓글에댓글
  4. 4. 아크시아 '04.10.12 3:39 PM 신고
    :-)*이건 제 글이 아닙니다. 창조과학 사이트의 내용을 어떤분이 잘 정리해 놨더군요 직접 방문해 보시죠.
    아래 영문에는 위의 내용을 사용해서는 안되는 이유가 나와 있습니다.
    제 글이 아니고 이글을 정리하신 분또한 스스로의 글이 아닙니다. 저 사이트에 직접 찾아가셔서 문의해 보세요. ↓댓글에댓글
  5. 5. 브랜단 '04.10.12 4:00 PM 신고
    :-)*이건 또 뭔소린가요? 왜 창조론자들이 저런 주장을 하면 안되는지
    타당한 논리를 복사해서 가져와주시기 바랍니다. ↓댓글에댓글
  6. 6. 아크시아 '04.10.12 4:06 PM 신고
    :-)*아.. 이건 창조과학을 주장하는 사이트에 있는 내용입니다. 제가 쓴글도 아니고 사이트도 링크시켜 뒀구요 아래 영문에 보면 이유라고 적혀 있네요. ↓댓글에댓글
  7. 7. 아크시아 '04.10.12 4:07 PM 신고
    :-)*제 논리도 아니고 창조론자들이 스스로 저런논리로 진화론을 반박하면 안된다고 써 놓은 것으로 알고 있습니다. ↓댓글에댓글
  8. 8. 아크시아 '04.10.12 4:15 PM 신고
    :-)*브랜단님 오늘은 어떤 논리로 저를 즐겁게 해 주실껀가요? ^^ 행복한 저녁시간 되세요 ↓댓글에댓글
  9. 9. 별샘달샘 '04.10.12 5:06 PM 신고
    :-)*ㅋㅋ 또 논리타령.~~ ↓댓글에댓글
  10. 10. 유준수 '04.10.12 5:45 PM 신고
    :-)*참솔님. 왠만하면 순서대로 해주시지 버기 힘들구만~
    나는 차례대로~
    2번은 거짓이라는 증거가 없다는 말입니다. 진화론적인 반론이 없다는 말이죠.
    3번. 상동.
    4번. 이것 역시 그냥 그종은 그종이지 인간과 원숭이의 중간종이 아니다.
    5번. 공룡이 지금까지 살아거나 죽었거나 진화하고 관계없음.
    6번. 열역학 제1법칙은 어떠한 물리적 변화에도 에너지의 총양은 같다. 열역학 제2법칙은 열의 이동은 고온에서 저온으로의 비가역이동이다. 입니다. 이게 진화하고 무슨 관련이 있는지 전혀 알 수 없음. 누가 이런 말했는지 타당한 이유가 있는지 내 자신이 가진 정보가 없음.
    7번. 유인원의 존재가 상관없는 이유는 유인원이 진화해서 인간이 되었다는 증거없기 때문. 유인원이 진화해서 인간이 되었다면 현재는 유인원이 없어야 한다는 것 또한 근거 없음.
    8번. 인간의 갈비뼈 수는 남녀의 상관없이 같음.
    9번. 시조새가 진화했다는 증거가 없음. 파충류가 날개를 갖기 전까지는 그것을 증명 못함.
    10번. 알비노개체란 제가 알기로는 완전열성인자에 의한 것이지 유전자 돌연변이는 아니라고 알고 있습니다. 백호가 그냥 보통의 호랑이랑 결혼해서 애낳으면 보통의 호랑이가 나온다는 것이죠. 열성우성유전에 의한 것입니다. 그 개체에서의 돌연변이는 맞게지만 유전자 자체가 돌연변이는 아니고 또 유전되지 않던 것이 갑자기 생겨난 것이 아닌 월래 유전된던것이 우성인자에 가려서 안나타나다가 열성끼리 만나서 나타났을 뿐이죠. 환경에 적응한 것은 더더욱 아니고요.
    이정도면 논리적인 반박이 되었나요?? ↓댓글에댓글
  11. 11. 브랜단 '04.10.12 6:09 PM 신고
    :-)*쭉 읽어 보면 알겠지만 아무이유없이 저렇게 주장하면 안된다고 하니 논리가 부족하지요. ↓댓글에댓글
  12. 12. 참솔 '04.10.12 6:53 PM 신고
    :-)*결국은 모두가 진화론.창조론과는 상관없다는 말씀이시군요, 그런데 이런 이유를 대면서 진화론을 공격하고 있으니 한심한 일이죠.
    알비노개체에 대해서는, 열성유전인자는 맞습니다. 하지만 최초의 '알비노 유전인자'는 어떻게 생겼을까요? 바로 돌연변이에 의해 만들어진 것이 아닙나까? ↓댓글에댓글
  13. 13. 참솔 '04.10.12 7:00 PM 신고
    :-)*그리고 전에도 썼지만, 품종개량의 결과 만들어진 품종들이 많죠. 과연 자연산의 토끼들 중에 앙고라 토끼처럼 긴 털을 가진 토끼가 있었을까요? 자연산의 소들 중에 필요 이상으로 많은 젖이 나오는 소가 있었을까요?(필요이상의 젖을 만드는 것은 에너지낭비죠) 모두 돌연변이에 의해 생긴 변이체들입니다. 이들 모두 머리 하나에 다리가 넷, 눈 두개 달려 있지만 돌연변이가 맞습니다. ↓댓글에댓글
  14. 14. 브랜단 '04.10.12 11:45 PM 신고
    :-)*그 돌연변이는 인간이 만든것이지 자연발생이 된 것이 아닙니다.
    사람조차 복제해 내는세상에 그런것쯤 식은죽 먹기겠지요. ↓댓글에댓글
  15. 15. 아크시아 '04.10.13 8:12 AM 신고
    :-)*머 소위 창조과학한다는 사람들이 스스로 진화론을 주장할때 해서는 안될것이라고 말한것인데..
    역시 한국기독교특유의 자기중심적 글들이 많이 올라오네요.
    내가 아니면 모두 다르다는 심지어 같은 사사을 가진 사람일지라도 자신과 다르다면 이단으로 악마로 몰아대는 그런성격.. ^^ ↓댓글에댓글
  16. 16. 참솔 '04.10.13 9:25 AM 신고
    :-)*브랜단님, 품종개량은 이미 수십년전부터 시작되었습니다. 그때부터 유전자를 조작하고 있었다는 이야기는 아니시겠죠?(아니, 프리메이슨들은 그깨부터 유전자를 조작해서 인간을 복제하고 있었을 수는 있겠네요.. ㅡㅡ)


    품종개량은 인간이 돌연변이시켜 만드는 것이 아닙니다. 자연적으로 만들어진 돌연변이가 도태되지 않도록 격리시켜 번식시키는 것 뿐이죠 ↓댓글에댓글
  17. 17. 브랜단 '04.10.13 5:55 PM 신고
    :-)*자연적이긴 한데 인간이 조작을 가해야 변할 수 있는 것이군요.
    예를 들면 여자와 개를 섹스하게 한다는 것 자체가 인간의 의지에 의한 것이기 때문에(그런 삐리리 여자가 과연 있을지..)..근데 웬지 부적당한 예인것 같구.. 그렇게 해서 임신이 될까하는 의문도 생깁니다.
    그건 그렇다하고..
    품종개량을 위해 인위적인 조작을 만들어서
    품종을 개발한 이후에 그 동물(?) 혹은 식물(?), 어쩌면 바이러스(?)가..
    인간으로 발달할 확률이 얼마나 되나요?
    그리고 인위적인 조작은 누가 하나요?
    신화에 등장하는 사람얼굴이 있는 말과 사람몸을 가진 소머리 괴물인
    미노타우르스가 섹스를 통해서 사람얼굴과 사람몸이 만들어질 확률은?
    흠.. 역시 복잡해 지는군요,, ↓댓글에댓글
  18. 18. 브랜단 '04.10.13 10:04 AM 신고
    :-)*예를 들면 여자와 개를 섹스 시켜서...?
    그렇군요.. 자연적이군여..
    개 사람...을 만들수 있겠네요.
    얼굴은 사람인데 몸은 개인...
    흠..
    그런식의 변화라면 있을수 있겠네요.
    그렇다면 인간은
    인어와 소머리인간의 합작?
    원숭이와 인어?
    흠.. 복잡하네.. ↓댓글에댓글
  19. 19. 울트라뽛 '04.10.13 11:16 AM 신고
    :-)*상상하고는... 나보다 더하네... ↓댓글에댓글
  20. 20. 유준수 '04.10.13 12:07 PM 신고
    :-)*참솔님. 누가 그럽디까? 자연적인 돌연변이를 격리시켜키운게 돌연변이라고? 그럼 품종개량하겠다고 연구실에 있는 사람들은 언제 일어날지도 모르는 자연적 돌연변이를 마냥기다리고 있는 것이고 기업은 자연적으로 일어나는 돌연변이를 돈들여서 연구원들 고용 해서 지켜보고 있는 거라는 말씀이십니까? 제가 알고 있는 거하고는 무척 다르네요~ 유전자 조작을 할 수 있게 되기전까지는 수많은 교배로 희귀유전인자를 찾았던거 아닙니까? 그건 만들어진 것이 아니라 월래갖고 있었지만 잘 안나타나던 것이지요. 새로운 종을 만든 것이 아닙니다. ↓댓글에댓글
  21. 21. 참솔 '04.10.13 2:37 PM 신고
    :-)*예, 희귀유전자를 찾는 것도 한가지 방법이죠. 그런데 그 '희귀유전자'는 어디서 왔나요? 필요이상으로 긴 털을 만드는 유전자나 송아지가 먹을 수 있는 이상의 젖을 만들수 있는 유전자가 어떻게 해서 생겼느냐 하는 것이죠. 신이 만들었을까요? 후세의 인간을 위해서? 그 희귀유전자 자체가 돌연변이 이외의 어떤 방법으로 생겼을까요? ↓댓글에댓글
  22. 22. 브랜단 '04.10.13 6:35 PM 신고
    :-)*게다가 진화론자들의 주장처럼 지구 나이가 수억만년이라면 수백만년전의 과학이 전무했을 때 인간의 조작이나 지적능력으로 보아서 그것을 하는게 과연 가능한 것인지?
    그리고 그 사람얼굴 말과 미노타우르스가 만들어질 확률과 만들어 진다 해도 만날 확률은?
    그 이전에 곤충이 자연 발생적으로 발생할 확률은?
    즉, 무에서 유가 될 가능성은?

    오... 너무너무 카오스네요... ↓댓글에댓글
  23. 23. 알감자 '04.10.14 2:37 AM 신고
    :-)*뭐 별로 대단하지도 않은 종교때문에 서로 얼굴 붉히지들 맙시다... 함께 웃으면서 살기도 힘든 세상에.. ↓댓글에댓글
  24. 24. 유준수 '04.10.14 8:30 AM 신고
    :-)*참솔님. 제가 말한 희귀유전자란 것은 월래부터 그생물이 가지고 있던 열성인자가 열성끼리 만나서 그유전적 특징을 나타냈다는 말입니다. 없던것이 생겨났다는 말이 아니죠. 오해하지 마십쇼. ↓댓글에댓글
  25. 25. 울트라뽛 '04.10.14 10:51 AM 신고
    :-)*우성인자 열성인자는 좋고 나쁨의 개념이 아닌 가치중립적인 개념이란다...
    열성인자인 직모와 금발이 만나면 희귀유전자냐?? 니 말 그대로 해석하면 이거 아니냐??? 난 니가 말하는거 어디 다른데서 들어본적이 없어...
    너 새로운 학파 하나 만들어라... 유준수 학파라고... ↓댓글에댓글
  26. 26. 유준수 '04.10.16 9:44 AM 신고
    :-)*울트라뽛. 내가 우성열성이 좋고 나쁜것이라고 했나? 이러말은 왜쓴거야? 그리고 가치중립적이다라는 말이 우성열성에 왜 나오는 거야? 등신아~ 니는 유전학시간에 졸았나보지? 우성열성유전이라는 것은 부모로 부터 무려받은 유전형질중에서 그 형질이 서로 다를 때 어떤형질이 나타나는냐 하는 것을 말하는거야. 이를테면 어떤 생물의 털색깔을 결정하는 유전인자가 하나는 빨강을 받고 하나는 파랑을 받았다고 치자 그러면 그생물이 무슨색깔을 갖고 있는 지에 따라서 어떤 유전자가 우성인지 열성인지 알 수 있는거야. 그생물이 파랑이라고 가정하자 그러면 파랑색 유전자가 우성이고 빨강색 유전자가 열성이 되는거지 그렇다고 빨강이 없어지냐 그건 또 아니거든. 이파랑색생물끼리 자식을 낳아도 1/4의 확률로 빨강이 태어난다이거야~ 근데 이건 다 알고 있을 때 하는 말이고 모를때는 그 잘나타나지 않던 우리가 필요한 이를태면 고기맛이 좋다거나 우유맛이 좋다거나 하는 성질을 결정하는 유전자를 찾아야겠지? 그리고 그 생물을 키우고 상품성을 갖추기위해서 먹이에 대해서도 연구하고 항생제에 대한 것도 연구하는데 돈을 쓴거야. 유전자 변형을 주기 전까지의 품종개량이라는 것은! 니가 못들어 봤으면 거짓말이냐? 모르면 입닥치고 구석탱이에 찌그러져 있어~ ↓댓글에댓글
  27. 27. 앙쥬가르디에 '04.12.10 2:51 AM 신고
    :-|*ㅡ.ㅡ
    외국 창조론자에게 한번 물어보세요..
    한국 창조론자들과는 상당히 다른 견해입니다..]
    유독 한국에서만 억지 주장과 논리가 판을 치죠..
    ㅉㅉㅉ ↓댓글에댓글
  28. 28. 레드슈크림 '06.4.20 1:29 PM 신고
    외국 이야기 나왔으니 한마디 하자면
    초대 다윈의 진화론은 "화석"이 자신의 이론을 뒷받침 해줄꺼다...했다가
    시조세의 화석이 발견됨으로 정설화 되었습니다.
    그 후에 진화론의 최대 아킬레스건인 "캄브리아기의 대폭발"로 인해 지금은
    외국에서 안씁니다 -_-+ 가장 최근에 국가연구비 받아서 발표된 "가이아이론"
    이나 되야 3차 진화론 이론 각광받는거지만, 실제 그 연구가 어떻게 발표되었는지
    아는 사람은 그 걸보고도 좀 웃습니다.

    결론인 즉슨 지금의 단편적 증거나, 지금까지 죽자사자 연구한 결과로는
    진화론, 창조과학.. 양쪽다 소설일뿐입니다.
    어떤것도 진리이다. 라고 말할 수 없이 증거부족에 허덕이며 추론, 추측하는 단계입니다.

    진화..뿐아니라, 천채, 물리, 수학 전공하는 사람들 다 모아두고 함 이야기해보세요
    진화론이 진리이다라고 말 못 합니다. ↓댓글에댓글
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